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DD-971 USS DAVID R. RAY
Fate: Inactive, out of commission, to be disposed of (Maintenance Category C) at NISMF Bremerton, Wa.

What is it means Maintenance Category C?

http://www.nvr.navy.mil/maint_C.htm
or
http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:tR-cbzzCucAJ:www.nvr.navy.mil/maint_C.htm+Maintenance+Category+C&hl=zh-TW&lr=&strip=1

Maintenance Category C
Maintenance on Category C ships/service craft in general takes priority over all other categories except Reserve Category B. Category C ships/service craft will be retained essentially "as is" and will be preserved to minimize deterioation. Retention service craft and ships being held for Foreign Military Lease (FML) will be assigned to Category C. Ships/service craft selected for this category are those which receive a lesser mobilization priority than Category B.

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Please feel free to correct my mistakes in Chinese, I'm still in the process of learning Chinese.

Anyway, a lot of older U.S. ships used armored box launchers to launch Tomahawk missiles, especially on the cruisers and battleships. Many ships had the box launchers placed on the helicopter pad, sacraficing helicopter support facility for the benefit gained in launching Tomahawk missile.

Where as Soviet ships always have large numbers of armored box launchers graft on the side of their ships.

[DOC] °ê­x±Ð¾ÔÁ`«h

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¥»¤åªº¥Øªº¥D­n¬O±´°Q¤@­Ó³q¥Î«¬®gÀW(RF)¤zÂZ¼u¼ÒÀÀ¤ÀªR¨t²Î¡A¨ä¤¤­¸¼u©Ê¯à¡B¤zÂZ¼uªº¯S©Ê¡BÀô¹Ò¦]¯À¤ÎÄ¥²î¾Ô³N¹B°Ê½Ñ¤¸µ¥³£¥i¥H¥Ñ¨Ï¥ÎªÌ¦Û¦æ³]©w¡A¨t²Î¦bºî¦X¦U¶µ°Ñ¼Æ¤§«á¡A¼ÒÀÀ­¸¼u¡B¤zÂZ¼u¡BÄ¥¸¥µ¥¦Uª«¥óªº¹ê»Ú¹B°Ê¡A¨Ã¥H¨ä¦P¤@®É¬q¤ºªº¬Û¹ï¹B°Êª¬ªp¤ÀªR¸Ó¦¸ªº´ÀÂê¾Ô³N¬O§_¥i¥H¦¨¥\¤ÞÂ÷¨Óŧªº­¸¼u¡A¦P®É¸Ñºâ¨ä¥i¯à³y¦¨­¸¼u°¾®tÄ¥¸¥ªº¤è¦ì¤Î¶ZÂ÷¡C

http://www.cna.edu.tw/~sas/ccna/article/dee01.doc

¬B¡B°Ñ¦Ò¤åÄm
[1]     David L. Adamy, ¡§Introduction to Electronic Warfare ¡V Modeling and Simulation,¡¨ Artech House, 2003.
[2]     David L. Adamy, ¡§A First Course in Electronic Warfare,¡¨ Artech House, 2001.
[3]     Schleher D. Curtis, ¡§Electronic Warfare in the Information Age,¡¨ Artech House, 1999.
[4]     David B. Hoisington, ¡§Electronic Warfare,¡¨ Lynx Publishing, 1995.
[5]     Schleher D. Curtis 1986, Introduction to Electronic Warfare, Artech House
[6]     Merrill I. Skolnik, ¡§Introduction to Radar Systems,¡¨ 3rd ed., McGraw Hill, 2001.
[7]     ªñ­¢ªZ¾¹¨t²Î MK 15 MOD 11~14 ¡]¤è°}¨t²Î¡^²Ä¤T¥U¡A®ü­x§L¾¹¾Ç®Õ¡A79¦~12

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http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/taiwan_armstable.htm

02/01/1997: 114 SM-1 BLOCK VIB STANDARD missiles in lieu of 114 SM-1 BLOCK VIA STANDARD missiles sold 4 August 1992

04/01/1997: Upgrade of previously sold 114 SM-1 Block VIA"Standard" missiles to 114 SM-1 Block VIB

03/05/1998: 100 Hughes SM-1 "Standard" medium-range missiles

>>should be ¤ä´©Ä¥

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...
the ¬Û¦ì°}¦C¹p¹F test ship should be 6102

the ¬Û¦ì°}¦C array on 4202 and 4203 is for controlling remote control targets(RPVs), such as BQM-34
the hangar is for those targets, not choppers

the photo for 4203 shown that there is one RPV(not UAV!) on deck

>>the ¬Û¦ì°}¦C array on 4202 and 4203 is for controlling remote control targets(RPVs

­ì¨Ó...

/////

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>ºû¦N¥§¨È¯ÅSSNªº¶q²£«oÃxÁ{¾D¤j¬åªº¦M¾÷¡G­ì¥»¤wµM«D±`¤£¨¬ªº¤T¤Q¿´¡A¦p¤µ¥i¯à³Q¬å¨ì³Ñ¤U¤Q¿´¡A¦Ó´À¥N¤è®×«o¤K¦rÁÙ¨S¤@ºJ¡D

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http://navy-matters.beedall.com/pa2.htm

­ì¨Ó¦­¦b1999¦~¡Aªk°ê¨Ð´N¦V­^°êÀW°e¬îªi¡Aªí¥Ü§Æ±æ¨â°ê¦³§Ó¤@¦P¦X§@¬ãµo·s¤@¥N¯èÄ¥¡]»¡¬ï¤F¡A¤£¹L¬O·Q¥Î°¼­±¤â¬q§UThales¤@Áu¤§¤O¡A¨ú±oCVFªº¦X¬ù¡^¡A¨â°ê´¿¹ï¦¹¦h¦¸¶i¦æ°ê¨¾³¡ªø¯Åªº½R°Ó¡C

·í2003¦~ªìThalesÀò³Ó®É¡A³ß¥X±æ¥~ªºªk°ê«Ü§Ö¦a¹ï­^°ê¦ù¥X¼ö±¡ªºÂùÁu¡G

On 4 February 2003, at the 25th Anglo-French summit held in Le Touquet, the French Presidency issued a statement saying:

"France and the United Kingdom emphasise that air-naval capabilities are a key element in power projection. Our two countries, who already have substantial capabilities in this area, have decided to procure new aircraft carriers and to improve the availability and effectiveness of our carrier groups.

In this context France and the United Kingdom wish to develop the interoperability of their aircraft carrier groups, pursuing all areas of co-operation, in particular harmonising activity cycles and training. The objective will be to have one aircraft carrier permanently available.

¡]­ì¨Ó¦Ñªk·Qªº§ó²`§ó»·°Ú¡I¤£¥u¬O²î¤@°_³y¦Ó¤w¡^

France and the United Kingdom will also seek to develop industrial co-operation on the basis of their aircraft carrier procurement programmes. The UK decision on its national programme will open up new areas of co-operation."

¬Û¸û©ó®öº©¦Ü·¥¡B¼ö¦å¹LÀYªºªk°ê¨Ð¡A°È¹êªº¬ù¿«¤û¤@­±·t¦Û¦^¾Ðªk°ê¦b¤ô¥­½u®×¤íªºÂ±b¡A¤@­±¤´²Ô¤h¦a§C½Õ¦^À³¡G

Mr Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what discussions his Department has had with the French Government regarding the sale to France of UK aircraft carrier designs; and if he will make a statement.

Mr Ingram (holding answer 27/01/03): We have made clear to the French Government our view that the best way forward for United Kingdom/French co-operation on a range of carrier issues is at the industry-to-industry level.¡]Å¥¨ì¨S¡H§Ú­ÌªºÃö«Y³Ì¦h¨ì¦¹¬°¤î¡A§O±o¤o¶i¤Ø¤Ó¹L¥÷¤F¡I¡^ To facilitate the transition to such industry-to-industry co-operation, three official groups have been established and their work has been carried forward since the France United Kingdom summit on 4th February 2003 and the UK CVF down-selection decision. This work includes potential future co-operation on procurement issues and information interchange. The last such meeting took place on 13th February 2003. During the course of discussions, we have provided France with some basic design information, to help them decide the best way forward for their own programme.

The carrier is also regularly mentioned in more general discussions between Ministers and other members of our two Ministries of Defence.

ªGµM¡A¡u¤ý¤l»P¤½¥D¹LµÛ©¯ºÖ§Ö¼Öªº¤é¤l¡v¥u¦³¦bµ£¸Ü¸Ì¤~·|µo¥Í¡G

A common collaborative Anglo-French carrier project is politically very attractive, and it should theoretically be cheaper for the UK at least than a purely national project because of shared design costs, reduced build costs, and economies of scale from ordering 3 sets of everything rather than 2.  However in private senior Royal Navy officers continue to express reservations about the possible impact in terms of timescales and cost overheads of having to incorporate France and French companies in to the project, and the requirements of the French Navy requirements in to the design.¡]¤@­Ó¤£Â_ÀË°QSTOVLºc«¬¬O§_­n«O¯dCTOLªº¾l¦a¡A¤@­ÓÂ\©ú­nCTOL¡A«ç»ò¦X±o¨Ó¡H¡^  Arguments over work share, costs and management are almost inevitable.  Unfortunately some recent Anglo-French collaborative defence projects (e.g. the Horizon CNGF) have been notably unsuccessful, with timescales slipping many years (5-10) and costs soaring (40-100% above the cost of a purely national project according to a NAO report published in 2001.  Subsequent British parliamentary "post-mortems" have concluded that the problems were largely due to French insistence on un-equitable and unworkable management and industrial structures, while simultaneously the systems specification became ever less suited to UK needs.

ªGµM¡A¤ô¥­½uªºÂ±b³Q¦Ñ­^½¥X¨Ó­Ë¥´ªk°ê¤@¯Ò¡A­^°ê¨ÐÂǦ¹ÃÒ¹ê¤F®öº©ªk°ê¦b°µ¨Æ»PºÞ²z¤W¬O¦h»òÁV¿|¡C¦¹¥~¡A·í¦~¤ô¥­½u®×ªk°ê¨Ð»Ý¨D¤£¤j«oµw©í46%ªº¤u§@¶q¡A¤]Åý­^°ê¨Ð¹ïªk°êªº°í«ù¹x©TÃø¥H§ÑÃh....

Some people find it hard to believe that a joint Anglo-French carrier project will have more favourable results for the UK.  ¡]¯uª¾¨`¨£°Ú¡I¡^

One development in October 2003 was that apparently the USA warned the UK that it would consider French involvement in CVF as being a major problem from its point of view.  If it forms the view that JSF information might get across to the French, then the flow of that information to the UK will be stopped, a very serious issue given the scale of UK's involvement with the F-35.

¦Ñ¬ü¤]¶i¨ÓÅÍ©M¤F¡A¥L­Ì©ñ¸Ü¦pªG­^°ê­nÅýªk°ê¦bCVF®×°Ñ¤@¸}¡A´N±o¨ú®ø¹ïBAEÂಾF-35BÁp¦X¾Ô³N¥´À»¾÷ªº§Þ³N¡A¥H§KÅýªk°ê¨Ð¦³¾÷·|°½¿s¬ü°ê´¼¼z°]²£ªºµ²´¹¡C2003¦~¬ü°ê¹ïªk°ê¦b§ð¥ì¨Æ°È¤W¤j°Û¤Ï½Õ¤´Ãh«ë¦b¤ß¡A¦ÛµM¤£·|Åýªk°ê¨Ð¦n¹L¡C

In late February 2004 reports also appeared that BAE Systems was prepared to relinquish its status as the Prime Contractor role for the CVF Project, the French companies Thales and DCN being the eager but rival heirs apparent.  A BAE Systems source stated: "The Government may be keen for political reasons to allow the French in on this deal, but the reality is that they (the French) will want a slice of the action.  The project will become severely delayed and the Americans have told us they are not keen to share their technology with the French."  

BAE¤]¸õ¥X¨Ó©ñ¸Ü¡Aª½«üCVF§äªk°ê¦X§@®Ú¥»¬O¤@¼Î¬Fªv±B«Ã¡C

On 26 February 2004, Mr Turner Chief Executive of BAE Systems expressed his concern about the attempts by the UK and French Governments to co-operate on building their new aircraft carriers. He said that such a move would be plagued by complications and potentially delayed delivery of the British carriers.  ¡§I would be very cautious about the idea. I¡¦m not sure what would be in it for our armed forces,¡¨ he said. ¡§But at the end of the day we do what our customer (the UK Government) wants.  ... You never have negotiations with the French where you come out winning.¡]¸g¨å¦W¥y¡I¡^ At best you come out even.  So I would approach it with great caution.¡¨.   Mr Turner said the Anglo-French carrier deal could also badly affect a technology transfer deal by the UK with the US to allow it access to sensitive American defence technology.  Industrial collaboration between the UK and France on CVF may help reduce the costs of the two Royal Navy carriers but ironically, it will almost certainly dash BAE's hopes of the technology transfer deal governing the JSF because of the enmity between the French and Americans.  BAE Systems needs this to bid for work on the JSF and in the future to independently enhance the British variant, "You could say goodnight to anything on JSF,"¡]¸ò¦Ñªk¦X§@ªº¤U³õ¡A´N¬OÀò±oF-35B§Þ³Nªº¬ü¹Ú´N¦¹Â_©À¡^ said Mr Turner.

////////

¤@¬Û±¡Ä@ªºªk°ê¨Ð¨ì2004¦~Á`ºâ²M¿ô¡Aª¾¹D¨â°ê¦A·d¤@¦¸¥¿¦¡¦X§@¤]¤£·|¦³¦n¤U³õ¡A©Ò¥H±q2004¦~ªºPA2¯ó¹Ï´N¶}©l¨«¦Û¤vªº¸ô¡A2003¦~Thalesªº¡uªk°êª©ÂùÄ¥®qCVF¡v¤£´_¨£¡A¤Ï¦Ó¶V¨Ó¶V¹³¶Ç²Î°Ê¤Oª©ªºÀ¹°ª¼Ö¡C

³ÌªìDCN´£¥Xªº¤è®×¬O¨­Âß50000ton¡B·f¸ü50¬[­¸¾÷¡B¥H¥|®yK-15¤ÏÀ³ÄlÅX°Ê¡B¯à¦b®ü¤W¥H34¸`¨götªº¶W¯Åª©À¹°ª¼Ö¡]À¹°ª¼Ö¦Ñ¥S¦b¼X¹Ó¸Ì¹ª´x¡^¡A·íµM¥Î½¥»\·Q¤]ª¾¹D³o¿´¤j©Çª«ªº³y»ù±N¶W¹Lªk°ê®ü­x³Ìªì³]©wªº20»õ¼Ú¤¸¤W­­¡C«á¨ÓDCN±N¦¹®×ÁY¤ô¦¨43000tonªºÀ¹°ª¼Ö¤p§ï´Ú¡A¨Ã¶æÁn¥u­nªá18.3»õ¼Ú¤¸¡]À¹°ª¼Öªá¤F33»õ¼Ú¤¸¡^¡A¤£¹Lªk°ê­x³Æ§½ÀH«á¡u¦n¤ß¦a¡v´£¿ôDCN§O¤Ó¸Ø±i¡A¡u¦X²zªº¡v»ù¦ìÀ³¬O19.8»õ¼Ú¤¸¡FThales¤]¤£¥Ì¥Ü®z¡AÁnºÙ20»õ¼Ú¤¸¤º¥i¥H·d©w¥L­Ìªºªk°êª©CVF¡C

PA2¨s³º¨Ï¥Î¶Ç²Î°Ê¤OÁÙ¬O®Ö¤l°Ê¤O´¿¤Þµoª§½×¡A¡u¾Ö®Ö¬£¡v´£¥X®Ö¤l°Ê¤Oªº¤@²¼¦n³B¡A¨Ãµh³¯¦pªGPA2¥Î¤F¶Ç²Î°Ê¤O¡A±NÄY­««Â¯Ùªk°ê®Ö¯à²îÄ¥²£·~¡A¨Ã¼vÅT¬°¨Ó±ô³½¯Å®Ö¯à§ðÀ»¼çÄ¥ªº«Ø³y¡F¡u¤Ï®Ö¬£¡v«h±N¥ÙÀY«ü¦V®Ö¤l°Ê¤OºûÅ@¯Ó®Éªº³n¤U¸¡¡A¦Ó»P­^°êCVF¦X§@ªº¥i¯à«h¬O¶Ç²Î°Ê¤O®×ªº³Ì¤jÀu¶Õ¡Cªk°ê¦b2004¦~2¤ë²×©ó¨M©w±Ä¥Î¶Ç²Î°Ê¤O¡]­ì¥»À³¸Ó¬O2003¦~6¤ë´N¨M©w¡^¡A·Ó²z»¡Thales¥i¥H¤j¯º¤F¡A¦ý¬OÁÙ¨S§¹¡G

On 4 June 2004, DCN and Thales Naval France announced the creation of a joint company (controlled by DCN) to lead and be prime contractor for the PA2 program.  The Thales press release stated:

"DCN and Thales have decided to combine their strengths to propose to jointly lead the future French aircraft carrier programme (PA2), and have set up an integrated Prime Contract Office that will be placed under the responsibility of a jointly owned company. The new company will have a four-member board of directors, with equal representation of Thales and DCN, and will be chaired by a DCN nominee.  The purpose of the Prime Contract Office is to lead the PA2 programme from conception to completion. It would also be able to assist the studies for potential cooperation with the United Kingdom¡¦s future aircraft carrier programme, should this be desired by both governments. The shareholding of the new joint company will be DCN 65% and Thales 35%."

¤Ï¥¿Thales´N¬O¨S¦³·í¥D©Ó¥]°Óªº©R¡A§óºGªº¬O³o¦¸³]­pÅvÁÙ¬O¦^¨ìDCN¤â¸Ì¡AµL©Ç¥GPA2ªø±o¸òÀ¹°ª¼Ö¶V¨Ó¶V¹³¡C

The Thales' PA2 proposal made in late 2003 used the same Electric Propulsion System with gas turbines and pods that Thales UK was proposing for CVF, however DCN has done a considerable amount of work investigating propulsion options, and for an aircraft carrier of this size equipped with steam catapults it favours a modern steam (boilers and turbine) propulsion system with conventional shafts .  As DCN is leading the ship platform design and build aspects of the PA2 project, it's ideas may well win.  ¡]Ô£¡I¡H¦³¨S·d¿ù¡I¡H¡^

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Russia is the only country right now that produces super sonic anti-ship missiles, with the excellent SS-N-22 Sunburn missile and SS-N-26 Yakhont. Both of these missiles are physically larger than AGM-84 Harpoon (661.5 kg), ¶¯¤G (685 kg), with SS-N-22 Sunburn coming in at 9.745m and weights 4500 kg and SS-N-26 Yakhont coming in at 3,000 kg. If the proposed ¶¯¤T is to be super sonic and ramjet, there are certain requirements that it couldn't get away with. The initial boosters must be powerful enough to engage the ram jets (which meant the initial boosters are heavy), and it must carry enough fuel for substained super sonic flight and any useful range (which meant its heavy and physically bigger). Therefore, based on the above assumptions, the proposed ¶¯¤T is a much bigger missile.

I'm not arguing that ¶¯¤T couldn't be mounted on ships in Taiwan Navy's service, I'm arguing that there are certain limits to what can be acheived. Looking at the Taiwan Navy ships in service right now, the only way to mount it is to scab the armor box launchers on the side, like the Russians have done, by heavily modifiying the ships. Or, mounting only a limited number of missiles, like 2 ¶¯¤T instead of 8 ¶¯¤G.

The Oliver Hazaard Perry-class design is already way over designed weigth limit of 3,600 tons, plus 39 tons of planned growth. The last U.S. FFG was delivered at 4,100 tons full load, and Taiwan Navy's own ¥ú¤@ comes in at 4,200 tons full load. All these have detrimental effects on the ship's stability, especially in rough waters. The heavier weight of the ¶¯¤T missiles will certainly adds more weight to what is already a bloated design. What's going to become of the stability of the ship, when you mount heavy items high off the center of gravity, like putting ¶¯¤T where ¶¯¤G used to be?

As for your assumption of getting rid of the helicopter hangar to mount the proposed  ¶¯¤T missiles, this is a big no no. If you read any standard naval warfare text, most stressed that the attacking ship must not reveal their own existance by given off radar signatures. Therefore, the initial target detection are done via helicopter, AWAC, shore based radars. Once the target is detected and missile launched, the helicopter, AWAC, shore based radar gives the missile mid-course adjustments. In the terminal phase, the missile's own target detection system locks onto to the target and attacks it.

Only the helicopter is organic to the ship, without having the attacking ship rely on AWAC and shore radars. A onboard helicopter is must, to take advantage of long range of the missile by giving it initial target acqusition and mid course adjustment, and have the attacking ship remain unseen by the enemy. Therefore, the helicopter hangar must not be removed to make way for the ¶¯¤T missiles.

hey, don't forget another in-service missile that is using ramjet, the ASMP
it's size is much smaller than the Russian ones

¤Þ¥Î¤å³¹ Russia is the only country right now that produces super sonic anti-ship missiles, with the excellent SS-N-22 Sunburn missile and SS-N-26 Yakhont. Both of these missiles are physically larger than AGM-84 Harpoon (661.5 kg), ¶¯¤G (685 kg), with SS-N-22 Sunburn coming in at 9.745m and weights 4500 kg and SS-N-26 Yakhont coming in at 3,000 kg. If the proposed ¶¯¤T is to be super sonic and ramjet, there are certain requirements that it couldn't get away with. The initial boosters must be powerful enough to engage ...

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Heheheheh, I've always had my eye on the spare hangar (the PFG-2 almost always use only embark only one Thunderhawk).  Put extra missile tubes on a trolley and wheel the sucker in and out on the RAST - the tubes to face athwartships and fire away!

No impact on meta-centric height, uses existing assets .. like RAST  :)

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I agree with you, how long has the rumors of ¶¯¤T in circulation? 5 years? 10 years? Are we got are pictures of mock ups and rumors like below:

"The upgraded Hsiung Feng III missile, which can reportedly achieve speeds up to Mach 2.3 with a range between 200 and 600 kilometers (125-373 miles), is being developed because China has recently purchased advanced Russian supersonic anti-ship missiles."

All conjectures without any real hints of proof...

¤Þ¥Î¤å³¹ Heheheheh, I've always had my eye on the spare hangar (the PFG-2 almost always use only embark only one Thunderhawk).  Put extra missile tubes on a trolley and wheel the sucker in and out on the RAST - the tubes to face athwartships and fire away! No impact on meta-centric height, uses existing assets .. like RAST

I thought of that too... But was pointed out to me rather bluntly that hangar bays cannot be used to store missiles, missiless are stored in special magazines. The hangar bay doesn't have the armor or firefighting equipment necessary for storage of missiles, in the event of combat this is going to be a huge liability and a fire hazard.

On a small boy, spaces are at a premium. This space can probably better served as an excercise area to improve the morale of the crew, or as storage for any other than missiles.

¤Þ¥Î¤å³¹ Russia is the only country right now that produces super sonic anti-ship missiles

¤Þ¥Î¤å³¹ hey, don't forget another in-service missile that is using ramjet, the ASMP it's size is much smaller than the Russian ones

ASMP is not an anti-ship missile in the traditional sense as the harpoon, HF-2, sunburn, etc. Although I don't mind seeing Taiwan having a few ASMPs handy, they would go a long way in guarantee Taiwan's future. Give you guys enough time to sort through your own growing pains, mainlander problems, indegenous people problems, foreign bride problems, until your country finds a "Taiwan Consensus" and "Common Identity", without being bullied by China.

The ASMP(Air-Sol Moyenne Portee) is a long range nuclear delivery vehicle,
kinda like the U.S. AGM-129 ACM (Advanced Cruise Missile)

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As noted under the Cheng Kung report, all ships of the class will now be
retro-fitted with Harpoon II (RGM-84L) missiles in lieu of the HF-2 missiles.
Removal of HF-2 launchers from atop the superstructure would reduce weight
and moment, thus facilitating any modernization initiatives that might entail
additional topside weight and/or space. Also, the ROCN is considering the
removal of the 40mm/L70 gun turrets from the existing ships of this class,
which should also free up significant weight above the main deck level.

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¤Þ¥Î¤å³¹ On a small boy, spaces are at a premium. This space can probably better served as an excercise area to improve the morale of the crew, or as storage for any other than missiles.

You're thinking about long deployments like WESTPAC from Pearl ... the ROCN is essentially a coastal navy.  The guys can do without their movie theater if it means an unprecedented level of capabilities.  

Yes, having a ram rocket in the hangar would violate USN regulations but the "available margins" are somewhat different between the ROCN and the USN ...  

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Since both SM-1 and STIR is already in Taiwan Navy's service, mounting them on the the Lafayette wouldn't be a problem. The problem lies in system integration, making the Thales Tacticos system talking to U.S. hardwares.

If you compare Taiwan's and France's Lafayette, you'll notice Taiwanese models are cluttered with radars and whatnot, especially the big Thales DRBV-26D surface search radar. With this big reflector, Taiwan's Lafayette's Radar Cross Section is already badly compromised, might as well give them something better to defend themselves with than the almost worthless Sea Chaparrals.

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All variants of SM-2s have a secondary function against surface targets. However, it is much more effective to shoot surface targets with Harpoon, and aerial targets with Standard. The blast-fragment warhead of the Standard missiles are not as effective as the Penetration/high-explosive blast warhead of the Harpoon when used against surface targets, on top of Standard's warhead are smaller than Harpoon's warhead.
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/missiles/wep-stnd.html

¤Þ¥Î¤å³¹ ³½¤e¬O¥ÑSH-60µo®g    ¥´¦P¤@­Ó¥Ø¼Ð

SH-60 cannot shoot Harpoons, only Penguins (¥øÃZ).
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/missiles/wep-pen.html

ÁÂÁÂJimbo¥Sªº¸ê®Æ!

the country was Iran
same Harpoon, similar ending
the US Harpoon can't hit the target because it was nowhere already (sunk)
the Iran Harpoon can't hit the target because it was jammed by ECM

Dear fer-de-lance :
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RAM's range is way longer than Phalanx, the max range are 11 km versus 1,486 meters. Even though it is fun to watch the Phalanx take down a drone and carve the drone apart, but 1,486 meters is a little bit too close to comfort for me.

German Navy went entirely with RAM, while U.S. Navy adopt a mix policy. On U.S. Navy ships, RAM and Phalanx are interchangable. Most of the ships (big boys), when they come in for refit, some of the CIWS mounts are replaced by RAM, but some of the CIWS mounts are retained. There's also a hybrid system called the SEARAM, this is a combination of Phalanx's radar with an 11 round cell instead of the normal 21 round cell. Which may meant the total phasing out of Phalanx in the future.
http://navysite.de/launcher/ram.htm

Taiwan Navy has been cleared to purchase the RAM missile system at far back as early 1993, but so far you guys haven't order any... This is very puzzling to me, as the RAM will be a perfect candidate to replace the antiquated Sea Chaparrals you guys like so much. Even the max range of Sea Chaparral is shorter 1.2~9.4 km, and there's only 4 missiles on mount with 16 reloads (by hand), whereas RAM have 21 missiles on mount. Plus RAM is capable of missile interception, where the Sea Chaparral is only effective against airplanes. In every aspect RAM is superior to the Sea Chaparral, yet your Navy stubburnly cling onto the Sea Chaparrals. I don't understand... RAM would be perfect for the Lafayette-class frigate.

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¨Ò¤l:  AGM-88 HARM

Jimbo, I wouldn't be so quick to denigrate Sea Chaparral.  Historically, it was the first antiship defense missile ever to be deployed by the USN.  When intelligence reports suggested that the North Vietnamese were operating Komar missile boats armed with Styx antiship missiles near Haiphong, "Anti-Ship Missile Defense" (ASMD) systems had to be improvised.

The AIM-9D Sidewinder with the liquid nitrogen cooled seeker was found, after modifications, to be the most effective of the off-the-shelf systems.  Nine launchers were procured for fitting to FRAM Gearings deployed to Vietnam.  These Gearings also received a "Hybrid Acquisition Radar" (HAR) for target indication.  Eventhough the early Styx were not sea skimmers per se, they flew low enough to make detection difficult for shipboard radars of that period.  The best low altitude target acquisition radars of that time were those using Continuous Wave (CW) with doppler processing (eg. CWAR in the HAWK batteries.)  HAR used two plannar array antennas, one for transmitting and the other for receiving.  Both HAR antennas were fitted side-by-side on the back of the SPS-10 surface search radar antenna.  Frequency Modulation (FM) was superimposed on the CW signal to measure range.

Targets detected by HAR were selected using the Mk 5 Target Designation System already on the FRAM Gearings.  Target data were relayed to the Sea Chaparral on-mount operator who acquired the target and completed the engagement.  The AIM-9D had modifications to its guidance logic and a active doppler radar proximity fuze fitted to enable it to engage inbound missile targets.  The missile was later type classified as the MIM-72 also known as "Hamburger" (ie. "Ground Round" ... :)

A German (Siemans) L-band Pulse Doppler radar was later adopted as the SPS-58 for anti-ship missile defense and became part of the Basic Point Defense Missile System (BPDMS) which used a hand-served radar illuminator for directing the RIM-7H "Sea Sparrow".  A version of the SPS-58 was developed using the SPS-10 radar antenna (dual L-band and C-band feed).  The ROCN used this radar on the H930 mod 1 Wu Jinn I upgrade program.  Incidentally, the Sea Chaparral launchers on the earliest units were the same ones fitted to the USN FRAM Gearings in Vietnam.

The Sea Chaparral missile saw continuous upgrades.  ROCN Sea Chaparral missiles were retrofitted with the same rosette scan seeker (RSS also known as the Passive Optical Seeker Technique; POST) as Block 0 RAM and is considered to have similar anti-ship missile defense capabilities at close range.  RAM Block 0 derives it longer engagement range from its dual element interferometer passive radar seeker.  The passive radar seeker allows RAM to shoot at targets too far for the IR seeker to acquire and guides the missile into a position where the IR seeker can lock on to the target.  Against a non-emitting missile, RAM Block 0 would have no range advantage over MIM-72C/R (MIM-72C retrofitted with the Rosette Scan seeker) Sea Chaparral.  The MIM-72H (export version of the -72F) was built with the RSS while the MIM-72J incorporated other improvements in addition to having the RSS.

So, RAM Block 0 has certain advantages but Sea Chaparral in ROCN service is a much more effective missile than most people realize.

RAM Block 0 was released for export to the ROCN as part of the PFG-2 Flt 2 program.  The PFG-2 Flt 2 was canceled and RAM Block 0 did not pass OT & E.

RAM Block 1 on the other hand beats them all with a Focal Plane Array (FPA) imaging seeker that outranges RSS by a long way.  It can acquire targets at long range without the aid of the passive radar seeker.  Nevertheless, it needs a Combat Direction System (CDS) like SWY-3 or the even better SSDS to make best use of its capabilities.  Since SSDS has become the de facto standard CDS on all non-Aegis units in the USN, THAT should become the standard CDS for the ROCN ... directing RAM Blk 1.

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This is a big problem for me as well. Why can't you guys just stick with English, instead of trying to phonetically spell it out with Chinese characters? What do I use as a guide to pronounce "¨©¨½¯[", Minnan? Cantonese? Pekingnese? Shanghainese?

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The Basic Point Defense Missile System (BPDMS) originally on the Knoxes used a hand operated Mk 71 director modified from the Mk 63 Gun Fire Control Director by adding two Mk 115 Continuous Wave (CW) radar antennas (one for transmitting and the other receiving).

The operator receives target designation from the CIC via head-phones.  He then has train the director to the designated bearing and either acquire the target in the optics of the director.  The Mk 115 radar display is projected into his sight and he has to center the spot in his sight to have the Mk 115 radar illuminate the target.  The missile is fired when the operator has managed to do all of that.  Then the operator has to keep the radar dot centered in his sight until the engagement is completed.

You can imagine that this "man in the loop" is not very efficient.  Having CIWS replace the system was a big improvement.  Adding MCS and SM-1 will finally give these ships a decent combat direction system and long range AAW capabilities.  For within radar horizon range antiship engagements, the SM-1 Block 6B in surface mode is preferred over Harpoon because of the Mach 2+ speed.

I don't think any improvement to the Knox is worth the money, old hull and the steam plants demand too high level of man power. Also getting LCS to replace the Knox may be too rich for Taiwanese blood, look how the Speciall Military Package is delayed in the Legislative Yuan when your government's been seeking diesel submarines for 20+ years.

However, acquiring the recently retired Perry-class makes perfect sense, same machinery plants, similar weapon layout as Taiwan Navy's Cheng Kung-class. Streamline the parts requirement, training requirement, manning requirement, a win-win situation for Taiwan Navy.

If your military is more ingenious, they can even start a rebuild program for the Cheng Kung/Perry class. With 16+ hulls, it'll be economically feasible. The rebuild program will cut off the entire top side assembly and replace it with a superstructure of reduced RCS, redistribute the armament to reduce the top side weight, replace the Mk13 with Mk41, replace the Phalanx with RAM.

The final ship will have the 76-mm gun moved to the very forward, Mk13 replaced by Mk41 cells, the 8 Harpoons will be behind the bridge in radar absorbing boxes two deck lower, retain the ASW torpedoes, the 40-mm guns will be moved aft flanking the helicopter hangar, the helicopter hangar is reshaped in the same style as the Lafeyette-class, RAM on top of the helicopter hangar. The outer hull panels moved the the edge of the hull covered with GRP, ship's boat moved into special build covered bays. The bridge and the outer superstructure hull panels are angled at plus or minus 10 degree for reduced radar cross section, the radar mast reshaped and sheath in GRP, the exhaust stack is enlarged with IR suppressor to reduce IR signature. All electronics and sonar remains the same.

Jimbo, the first ex-Knox is already in a yard being fitted with MCS and SM-1 box launchers.  That's all there is funding for while waiting to foot the bill for the big ticket items down the road.

The final PFG-2 unit you were describing (Flt 2) never happened.  The final unit was completed and commissioned as a standard PFG-2 Flt 1.  

The answer is not to build new units that only adds to the cost.  If you need numbers or need to release the PFG-1 Flt 1 for their mid-life upgrades, leasing ex-NRF long-hull FFG-7, preferably those with SQQ-89 and Mk 92 mod 6 already fitted (and Mk 13 one-armed bandit restored), is a better option.  

A mid-life upgrade (if one can be afforded) would need to include SSDS as the new CDS with RAM Blk 1 and SM-2 guidance (WDS Mk 14 functionality) using "rehosted" software running in a number of circuit cards in a standard 19-in VME "box".  THAT, is the most cost-effective option.

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I'm sorry for replying in English, my Chinese is not very good.

Several I-400s Sen Toku-class submarines was captured and examined by U.S. Navy before they are scuttled, but the examination wasn't very fruitful. The technology used and the layout of the Japanese submarines are totally foreign to the U.S. military, plus the time spent onboard was only about a month at the most before U.S. Navy is forced to scuttle the submarines (to prevent them from falling into the Soviet Union's hands).
http://www.combinedfleet.com/sen_toku.htm

There are some superficial resemblance between the way Japanese WWII Sen Toku-class store their aircraft, and the way post WWII U.S. Navy submarines store their Regulus missile (in watertight cylinder). But I think the resemblance came from similar requirements reaching similar arrangements, instead of copying Japanese technology outright.

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You'd need 3D coordinates of the target and the outbound missile to compute mid-course command guidance commands.  You can use tracking radars to track both the target and the missile eg. TTR, MTR in the Nike-Hercules, SPG-51D or ... if you are really clever, you use the SPS-48E to track multiple targets and the SYR-1 telemetry system to track 20 outbound SM-2's simultaneously (on a time-shared basis).

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http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.11940794.1113590754.QmAL4sOa9dUAAAgWELM&modele=jdc_34
Pentagon Contract Announcement


(Source: US Department of Defense; issued July 15, 2005)


Northrop Grumman Ship Systems (NGSS), Pascagoula, Miss., is being awarded a $109,865,504 cost-plus-fixed-fee contract for Advanced Planning, Long Lead Time Material, Systems Engineering, and Special Studies for the LHA(R) Flight 0 Amphibious Assault Ship.

The LHA(R) will replace the LHA 1 Class Amphibious Assault Ship and will provide forward presence and power projection as an integral part of joint, inter-agency and multi-national maritime expeditionary forces. It will launch tilt-rotors, helicopters, and fixed wing, short take-off vertical landing aircraft in support of amphibious operations.

The LHA(R) Flight 0 Ship will be a variant of the LHD 8 Amphibious Assault Ship currently being built by NGSS and will have enhanced aviation capabilities.

Work will be performed in Pascagoula, Miss., and is expected to be completed by December 2006. The contract was awarded on a sole-source basis. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year.

The Naval Sea Systems Command, Washington, D.C., is the contracting activity

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The 052B uses the SA-N-12 Yezh (3M38).



This is an improvement on the SA-N-7 but still not very impressive.

Cedric, you frequent the PRC 'boards, so you should have seen the comments on how poorly SA-N-7 performed in test firings.  USN Intelligence credit that missile with Sea Sparrow range (but lower Pk) and considers SA-N-12 similar in range to a late Block SM-1.  

A commonly held misconception is that the rate-limiting step to engaging air targets is the rate of fire and speed of the intercepting missile.  USN studies have shown that early initial detection, efficient track compiling, threat evaluation and assignment of weapons to engage are much more important.  That is where USN systems such as SYS-2 Field Change 2 and an efficient CDS (plus LINK 16 integration) give a significant edge.  I also like the idea of Mk 74 mod 15 CWAT horizon search and Block 1A Phalanx being able to contribute to early detection of sea skimmers by the Kidds.

I get this feeling that we've been through a lot this before ...

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fer-de-lance:

¤Þ¥Î¤å³¹ So, RAM Block 0 has certain advantages but Sea Chaparral in ROCN service is a much more effective missile than most people realize.

That is if the missiles are properly maintained, in a recent practice event.

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this is what happened....

So maybe the 40mm L70 are there as the real first line of air defense. &nbsp;Although being very uneffective.